This week I sat down with agency owner Wayne Mullins from Ugly Mug Marketing where he shares his agency story, how they came to be, how they’ve built a successful full service marketing agency and the importance of building a world class culture rich team.
Learn more about Wayne at https://www.uglymugmarketing.com/
Find Socialistics at www.socialistics.com
Jason Yormark: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the socialistic social
media agency stories podcast. I’ve got another great guest this week. Someone that
I’m sure I have quite a few things in common with. So I’ll be interested to kind of
hear how they do what they do. So I want to welcome Wayne Mullins from ugly
mug marketing. Welcome to the show.
Wayne Mullins: Thank you so much, Jason. I’m excited for our conversation and
I’m really looking forward to it.
Jason Yormark: Awesome. Well, let’s just jump right in. Tell me your agency
story. Where did you start? How did it come to be? And you know, who are you
guys and what do you do?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, absolutely. So this journey actually started back when I
had a lawn and landscape company. So while back I had a lawn and landscape
company and over the course of about a three year period, we grew that company
very rapidly. And as a result of that growth, I started having some of our clients. So
clients of the lawn and landscape company come to me asking me, what are you
doing to grow? How are you marketing? How are you advertising? What are you
doing? And so I started just giving advice on the side, you know, here’s what we’re
doing, here’s what you should be doing or could be doing. And it was out of those
conversations that eventually ugly mug marketing would be born.
Jason Yormark: Got it. And how long ago did that happen? How long have you
been in business as that brand?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, so the lawn company would have been way back in the
day of 2003 through 2006. I sold that company in 2006 and at that point I actually
already had some people paying for marketing advice, marketing help. I didn’t
officially start ugly mug marketing though until 2009.
Jason Yormark: Okay. So you’ve been in business for a while. So tell me about
who you guys are, what you do, what’s your team like? Kind of give me the
lowdown.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, so we focus primarily on three core areas web, web
development, social media marketing, and then traditional marketing, everything
from television, radio, print, direct mail you name it. That’s the three core areas
that we stay focused in. You know, I don’t know, I know this is very cliche, but
you know, like a lot of agencies, we love to say that we focus on results and that’s
what matters most to us and to our clients.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. And tell me a little bit about how you built, was it just
you to start out? Did you have some folks with you? Tell me about your trajectory
and how you guys kind of got to where you are today?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, absolutely Jason. So, you know, when I first started, what
had originally grown my lawn and landscape company so rapidly was I was a
devout student of direct response marketing. I studied direct response marketing. I
read every single book I could get on it and I utilized direct response marketing,
and therefore highly believed in it. And so that’s what I was advising people to do.
That’s what I was people to do. Now, keep in mind the town that we’re located in,
the city has a population of 48,000 people. So we’re not talking big population.
We’re not talking big businesses, kind of rural town, rural community, so to speak.
And as I launched at ugly mug marketing, my belief and passion was that
businesses needed to be doing direct response. And so I attempted to go out and
convince business owners, entrepreneurs, that that is what they needed to be
doing. And it was a very long, difficult road. I was so set on this idea that it had to
be direct response, that I would ignore what they actually were asking me to do. So
they asked about designing something or they asked about helping with production
on something. My answer was always no, but here’s what we can do. We need to
be doing, you know, my things that I think are best for you based on my
experience. And it didn’t work well for me, to be honest with you, I spent more
time trying to convince them of the things they should be doing than I actually did
helping other people. And then one day as luck or chance would have it, I finally
said, you know, one of the things that kept coming up was can you help with a
website? Can you help with a website? And my answer was always, no, we don’t
do web. And finally out of desperation, I said, the next person who says, can you
do a website? Can you help with a website? My answer is going to be yes. And I
will figure it out and sure enough, it wasn’t long somebody asked. I want to say
that, that I quoted that person $400 for the website. I want to say that the
gentleman I paid to build that website charged $350. So as you can see, I wasn’t a
very astute businessman when it came to figuring this out.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. So tell me a little bit about your team, I looked at your
website, it looks like a pretty good size team. How did you build that? How did
you build your team and what does that look like today?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, the answer would be very slowly. But that was because of
my stupidity, as I just illustrated with the previous story. You know, my expertise
was around marketing specifically. And so when I started growing the team started
building out the team, you know, we’re a little over 12 years old now as a
company. You know, for the first, I would say eight years, we would have one or
two employees at a time that was the extent of it. Plus myself. And then four years
ago, we really began making the transition to building out a team. So it was less
about just specifically doing client work. It was more about being intentional,
about building a team that could get results and then finding the work for those
people. And so, you know, that’s the process we went through. The advice that I
got back then to pay steak and eat hot dogs, pay steak, and eat hot dogs. And that
advice doesn’t go over too well, especially when you’ve been struggling for years
to get your business off the ground, especially when you’ve been pouring your
heart, your soul, everything you’ve got into this business. And then you get the
advice of, you know, you actually need to pay yourself less or not increase your
pay and pay the people you recruit more. And so that mindset really was the shift
for me. It’s that team members are not an expense, team members are an asset that
they’re an investment into the future of the company.
Jason Yormark: I absolutely love that. I couldn’t agree more. I love that analogy
that you used. I think a lot of business owners, agency owners probably don’t
naturally think that way. I think it’s pretty rare. And I certainly do. So I fall into
that same method of thinking. A lot of it has to do with just, you know, I think a lot
of it comes down to, are you just that kind of person, you know, are you the kind of
person that can be comfortable with that and has a good heart or you’re generous,
or you just, you know, but at the same time, you know, recruiting and interviewing
and hiring and turnover, all of those things are tremendously time consuming and
expensive, and I would argue, and I’m sure you probably agree by paying people
more, but they’re worth maybe even more sometimes, there’s a higher propensity of
those people sticking around longer, and you’re not having to constantly replace
people and have a revolving door. So ultimately it ends up saving you money
because you’re not having to go through that sort of thing over and over again.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, absolutely. And generally speaking when you’re willing to
pay more, you’re able to attract a different caliber of people to that position. So
yeah, I completely agree with that.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. And have you, so in that regard, and I probably already
know the answer to this question, so have you had the luxury of having people on
your team that have kind of been you with you for an extended period of time and
if so, how has that benefited your agency?
Wayne Mullins: Absolutely. So I have you know, currently the longest running is
four years. I had somebody else prior to that that was four years. And you know,
those people are still here, so that clock is still ticking up. It’s still increasing you
know, the thing that’s uniquely challenging about where we’re located is that most
of the talent doesn’t stick here. So most of the talent in marketing, in advertising
doesn’t stay around here just because there aren’t that many jobs available. And so
they end up in bigger marketplaces. And so for us, recruiting is very, very difficult.
Hiring is very difficult. Part of that also has to do with our level of expectation.
You know, for us, this is not an exaggeration, but for every hundred applicants that
we get, we will probably talk to about 30 of those people of those 30, we will
probably actually interview less than 10 of those people and we may end up hiring
one of them. So it’s a lot of moving pieces to find the right people.
Jason Yormark: Well, that’s a lot of work. I should have asked these questions.
So are you, the work that you do, is it predominantly local to your region or is it
more national, a mix of both?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, great question. It’s a mix of both. I would say the mix
varies a little bit from season to season, time to time, but we are roughly, probably
65% in the state in Louisiana, 35% scattered across the country and occasionally
across the way.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. And do you guys have a physical office where your
team, do you work out of a physical location, or do you have a virtual element to
any of what you do?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, we do have a physical location. We have an actually quite
nice building that we’ve been in for about two years now, right in downtown of our
town that we’re located in. And most of us work here in the office. We do have one
person who recently moved and is working remotely at this point.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. What has the with the pandemic, has that changed
anything for you guys in any capacity, whether logistically, operationally, fiscally,
I’m just kind of curious how it’s impacted you guys.
Wayne Mullins: So, you know, initially we were shut down for a period of time in
terms of not able to come together in the office. But you know, to be honest with
you, we came through it very strong. We came through it you know, very well as a
team. We worked really hard over those initial weeks to connect with every single
client, make sure they were doing okay, have conversations with them, not just
about business, but about life, you know, how are they coping with everything
taking place. So I really think that, you know, we created unintentionally, but there
was some intent behind it. We created a lot of Goodwill during that period of time.
One of the things that we did, we didn’t know what to do like so many you’re kind
of caught off guard and you don’t know what to do. We have a decent sized
following on Facebook, you know, 6,000, 7,000 followers in typically what we’d
done in the past is we used our platform. We use the Facebook platform, we would
go in there and do Facebook lives, do webinars, etc. During the pandemic, we
decided that we would reach out to our clients. We would reach out to people in
our community, business owners, we’d reach out to vendors. We’d reach out to
anybody that we thought could benefit from some exposure during that time. And
over the course of a six period, we actually interviewed 60 people live on
Facebook during that six week window as everything was shutting down. And the
intent behind that was simply this, that we have this platform that we typically use
in quote unquote self-serving ways. Sure, we broadcast, and we put out good
content for our followers, but we wanted to open that up to other people. So I know
you didn’t ask specifically about that, but that’s one of the ways that we actually
use that time to better serve our clients and better serve our community.
Jason Yormark: I love it. No, actually, we are more of a virtual agency. So we
don’t have that hometown feel, a lot of our maturation as a business actually
happened during the pandemic. So even if we had wanted to kind of move in that
direction, our hands are kind of tied because we didn’t really have that to begin
with. So I could definitely see how, you know that would change and give you
more. I mean, that’s one of the things that I often think about that, you know, I
envy is that, you know, being kind of that marketing agency that’s well-known and
has a really strong footprint in a specific area just because of the intimacy of what
that type of setup can provide. And certainly that aligns nicely to social media. So I
just certainly know the benefits, but you know, what is your, I mean, what is your
kind of like 5, 10 year plan? I mean, are you one of those agencies that’s like, we’re
kind of happy with what we are and what we represent, or do you kind of have
aspirations to take it a step further, which I would imagine would require doing
more work outside of your area? I’m just kind of curious about what your future
plans are as an agency owner.
Wayne Mullins: The reality is Jason, I don’t have an easy answer or simple answer
to that. I probably should, but what I would say is this, that, you know, my goal for
the company is simply this, that every single day, we’re getting a little bit better.
And I know that’s like the most cliche thing that someone could possibly say. But I
view it as this. So when someone comes and they become a part of our team, my
goal for that person, regardless of position, regardless of how long they’re going to
stay, my goal for that person is when they leave here, they are a better person, both
personally and professionally than when they got here. And so that is the mentality
though, that like flows through to the clients. It flows through to every aspect of
what we do. You know what I think so uniquely challenging about what we do in
the agency world is this, that what is exceeding expectations today, tomorrow will
become under exceeding expectations, right? So when you exceed expectations
day after day, that becomes the new expected norm. And so then you have to push
again. So you have to get a little bit better, or if not the latest, the greatest thing, the
next thing that comes along that promises something extraordinary in the way of
results, everyone’s going to flock to that company, to that thing, that app, whatever
that quote unquote magic thing may be.
Jason Yormark: Yeah. And you know, that’s a challenging environment to work
in some curious, when you’re looking for folks to join your team. What are your
non-negotiables like when you’re looking for folks, like what are the two or three
things that the person, the people that you want to bring into your family, your
work family, that they absolutely must check that box? Like, what are those things
for you?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. The very first one would be core values alignment. So the
skills can be taught. Skills can be taught day in and out. So we could take
somebody that knows nothing about social media. We can teach them those skills.
We can teach them ads manager, we can teach them whatever the things may be.
You cannot teach core values. You specifically cannot teach core value alignment.
Meaning if their personal values don’t align with what we stand for, there is
virtually no chance that overtime we’re going to convince them to align their values
with ours. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it’s probably not worth the time
investment to make that happen. So number one would be alignment with core
values. The second thing would be this idea, which it ties back into one of our core
values, but of being a lifelong learner. We want people who are passionate about
learning something new, so it doesn’t have to be about marketing. It doesn’t have to
be about business necessarily, but it does have to be about learning. They got to
have that mindset of, I don’t know as much as I should know about this area, I’m
going to keep learning. I’m going to keep pushing, I’m going to keep growing. So
those will be two things.
Jason Yormark: Excellent. So I want to talk a little bit about how you guys, how
you inbound leads, outbound leads. Like what is your process or what’s been your
areas of success for attracting and gaining new clients?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, you know, for the longest I felt guilty about this, Jason
because we were terrible marketers. All of our business came from word of mouth,
actually a hundred percent. And to this day, you know, 95 plus percent of our
business is word of mouth. We’ve gotten better though at leveraging how to get
word of mouth. We’ve gotten better at being intentional in attracting word of
mouth. So an example of what I mean by that would just simply be this. So, you
know, when launch a new website for somebody, for example, we will make a post
on social media that says, congratulations to X, Y, and Z. We will then spend
money promoting it to people who like that page, who are interested in that page if
we’re able to target. So, in other words, if that audience is big enough and we can
target that group, we’re going to target that group. And the reason is this, because
then everyone in that circle sees, oh, you know, this place I like just got a new
website. Oh, that’s interesting. This company did it. And so what that does is, it’s a
psychological trigger. It’s that social proof that, huh? If they use them, they’re
probably a decent company. So, you know, when the website conversation comes
up, I’m going to at least give them consideration, at least reach out and try to
connect with them.
Jason Yormark: I love that. That’s a great tip. What percentage of your, you had
mentioned, you said web, social and some traditional marketing, what’s the
percentage breakdown in terms of the work that you do. Do you have a sense of
that?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, so in the past, it’s roughly been a third, a third, a third and
that’s [18:55 inaudible] over the years. We’re currently at roughly 40% on
traditional marketing and then the other two departments are roughly splitting the
remaining. So that’s where we currently are. So 30, 30, 40 is that math right. Don’t
challenge me on my math here because math is not my thing.
Jason Yormark: I’m not going to do that. So do you find it easier to kind of get an
entry point with clients with a tangible thing? Like when you talk about a website,
it’s like this physical thing, it’s like, we need this thing, you build this thing, we can
see it, we can hear it, like it’s tangible. And then that opens up the door to maybe
some of the things that they can’t touch, taste, or feel like, you know, social media.
I mean, yeah, you can see the content, but like it’s often a big mystery for a lot of
clients that we come across in terms of how that can actually work and drive real
results for their business. So a lot of times you know, it’s more of a struggle for us
because there isn’t that tangible thing that a client may know that they just, we
physically need this thing. And then that kind of opens up that opportunity to do
other things when you have projects like that. Are you finding that your entry
points with clients typically lead that way or is it just kind of a mix?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, no, what you’re saying is absolutely true. So our number
one salesperson for a new website for us is the competitor of the person who called
us. So let’s just use a dentist office. So a dentist’s office calls us and says, Hey,
we’re interested in getting a quote on a new website, 9 times out of 10. We come to
find, later we find out that one of their competitors just got a new website. And so
they’re like, oh, that website looks great. Ours looks terrible. We need this new
quote, unquote, like you said, thing. One of the ways that we combat that, because
that is a thing. So with social, you know, a very common thing as well, my
nephew’s boyfriend can take care of this. He’s got a hundred thousand followers on
Instagram. He’s, you know, all these things. And so one of the things that we do to
combat that as well, again, we use social proof and so we will highlight clients. In
other words, we’re excited to be celebrating our third anniversary of working with
client X, Y, or Z on, specifically on their social media. So we’ll talk about in that
post, what are we doing. So we will specifically call out social media. We will
specifically mention a few of the things that we’re doing or have done for that
client over that time period. And again, what we’re looking to create with that is
recreating some tangible evidence of this other otherwise kind of mysterious, like
digital thing that really any kid with a smartphone could do so to speak. And when
we do that, what that does is it enables that person, even though they may not
know that other client to sell on our behalf, because they think in the back of their
head, they think, well, if they’re going to spend whatever the amount is, X dollars a
month paying this company for the last two years to do it, there’s got to be a logical
reason, right? It’s not just some random person who decided to waste a bunch of
money with a local agency on their social media. There has to be a logical ROI
behind that. The only other thing I’d say that we always attempt to do is we always
attempt to identify the low hanging fruit first with any client and, so this would be
on social or on traditional marketing. And we attempt to replace our fee, whatever
we charge with new revenue as quickly as possible. So we will be pretty adamant
in some instances on what are the first things we need to do. Because the sooner,
we know that the sooner we can cover our own fee with new revenue, we’ve got a
client for life. We’ve got a client for life. And so always look for the low hanging
fruit first. In other words, what are the things that could be done that would drive
revenue that you can show that traction to, right? You can take what you’ve done
and say, here’s what we’re doing. Here’s the new revenue generated. Here’s how
we’re able to connect those two pieces. When you can do that, you will have clients
for quote unquote life.
Jason Yormark: I love that. One of my favorite questions I love to ask agency
owners because I think it provides some really great insight for those that are just
starting out or thinking about starting out is, you know, if you went back and could
do something differently around your building your agency, you know, missteps
that you made or things that you took you awhile to kind of figure out, what’s one
or two things that kind of come to mind that you would’ve done differently, or if
you were recommending to somebody who’s looking to kind of get this that they
really need to be thinking about.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. Great question. I’m going to give you two answers. One’s
going to be more tactile, more specific. The other, one’s going to be kind of a, not
so much that, and I’ll start with the first one, which is, I wish I hadn’t believed the
stories that I told myself for so long. So let me give you a specific example of that.
So for the longest time I carry this story around with me that I wasn’t a great leader
or a great manager. And for that matter that I wasn’t even a good manager or a
good leader. I carried that story with me for so long that it continually played out in
my business. Now that’s just one example. There was a lot of examples of stories
that I carried over from my previous experiences into this agency that I believe to
be true, which weren’t actually true. When I shifted those stories, the business
began to shift. So that’s kind of the more mystical or more woo woo answer. The
more tactile one is this. I wish that I had increased prices sooner. I wish I had
increased prices sooner. So, you know, we always go into things and we go in a
little bit timid, right? We go in walling, we were coming from a position of need
instead of a position of abundance. And so when we come from that perspective,
we come in at a price that devalues our services. It devalues even our entire
industry, right? You choose one of those buckets, marketing, social, or web. It
devalues those because we pride ourselves so low that we’re now frustrated by the
fact that we got the project, because we’re charging so little, we’re frustrated.
Therefore we don’t give them everything that we know they need or deserve. They
get frustrated because they’re not seeing the results that they hope for. And so it’s
this horrible cycle that we get into, all because we weren’t confident enough in our
skills and our ability to price ourselves at the level they need to be priced at.
Jason Yormark: That is a phenomenal piece of advice and incredibly timely. I
was actually, I’m part of a mastermind group in where we were talking about price
and how, So, I mean, I went through that exercise of feeling uncomfortable raising
prices. And like you had said, like operating out of need and not really charging
what you’re worth. And, you know, we’ve gotten past that for the most part. But I
constantly see, it’s almost like every agency owner goes through that. There’s not a
single agency owner that doesn’t experience that struggle. And it really isn’t
anything more than just training yourself to get comfortable with it. It’s a mindset,
you know, it’s really just getting past this idea that you’re going to lose an
opportunity because you’re charging too much. But the fact of the matter is if that’s
the case, they’re not the right fit for you. And to your point, which I love is that.
And I talk about this all the time, the power of saying, no, you have to be
comfortable saying no, sometimes a particular client isn’t the right fit for you
fiscally. And you know, maybe sometimes, sometimes the bigger clients can pay
for some of the smaller ones and you take those on, you know, but generally
speaking, you know, everybody’s not going to be a fit and you don’t want to get
into a situation where you’re charging less than what you’re worth. It frustrates you,
it frustrates your team. It impacts results. It’s a recipe for disaster. So I love that.
And I could not agree with that more. It’s definitely something that most agency
owners experience in some capacity.
Wayne Mullins: That was true for me. I would say, you know, two ways to
combat that would be one, just whatever you’re currently quoting, you know,
whatever the service is at. Just make a commitment to yourself that you’re going to
increase it by 10% with every single new project you get until you start hearing
more no’s, right. Just keep increasing it at 10%. The other advice that I got way
back in the day was you know, what would you normally quote for the project? So
the price, you know, the quote would normally be $2,000. Okay. At what price
would make you very uncomfortable to give them. So maybe that’s $3,000. Okay,
so $3000 is my kind of threshold. My internal threshold of what’s kind of way too
expensive possibly for this client to pay. And so I was actually challenged at the
time by a coach to go to that threshold and quote those prices to people. And I can’t
tell you the amount of resistance and the amount of pushback that I gave in this
process, but I wish I had listened to that much sooner.
Jason Yormark: So you just got to do it. You just put it out there and you’ll be
shocked at how it turns out. I mean, I think a much more favorably than most
people ever think. So that’s great stuff. So a couple one last question I’d like to ask
is what is, a favorite piece of technology, a book, a show, a resource, an article
what’s something that’s really stood out to you recently that has really made an
impact for you in some capacity across any of those sorts of things.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. So I’m an avid reader, I read a lot. And so the question of
what one book is always a challenge because it’s like the book I’m currently
reading is the best book I’ve ever read usually. And so it’s like, that’s a tough one
for me. I just read a book called straight line leadership, which really was a
powerful book for me. It just talks about how we often over-complicate so much
and we work ourselves in circles or we zigzag our way to success when the reality
is, we can draw much more of a straight line than we believe as possible if we just,
those points along the way that we need to hit. So that’s a book I’d recommend.
Another would be, you know, one of the things that I’ve been very intentional
about this year is I’ve switched back to a physical planner for my calendar. I still
use Google calendar, but I didn’t take it and I put it in my physical or I will start
sometimes with the physical and then take it over to Google. It’s made a huge
difference in my productivity. For one, it’s not nearly as distracting as getting in
Google. Two, it’s just enables me, I use one that’s called the calendar itself is
called planner pad. And it enables me to see the entire week at one time with all of
my action items, all my to do’s in one spot. So for me as somebody who’s more of a
big picture person by seeing every single day laid out like that, I’m able to then like
segment those things off in my head and not worry about what am I forgetting?
What am I missing?
Jason Yormark: Nope. I love that. As much as a digital technology guy. I still
like the old school notebooks or things for note taking and things of that nature. So
I totally get that. So, well that’s awesome. Anything that I didn’t ask you or
anything that you’d want to add, that you didn’t get the opportunity to kind of share
that relates to kind of what we talked about?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. The only other thing I would kind of add is that, you
know, when it comes to building an agency, when it comes to building a team for
the longest for me personally, that I thought culture was just this thing that was just
like, you know, latest buzzword. And that culture was this thing that, you know,
Silicon Valley companies took care of. And, you know, it was all about the
napping pods and the stock kitchens and all this crazy stuff. But what I finally
realized was that if we are unintentional about our culture, then we are
intentionally creating a bad culture. So for unintentional about the culture, we are
intentional about creating a bad culture and when I embrace that, when I begin
putting in effort and really thinking through what culture are, we creating, things
begin to shift. So that is when, what I would call the term I would use is that is
when we began building out a self-accountable, high performance team, that
mentality shift for me was huge. It was profound. And so I would challenge
anyone listing to be intentional about your culture. And if you want to know what
your culture currently is for your agency, your culture litmus test is this, how do
people perform when the boss is away? So if you’re the agency founder, and you’re
listening to this, when you’re going on vacation and not checking in all the time,
what’s the performance look like of your team. That is what your true culture is.
That is the definition, that’s the litmus test for your company culture. And so for
me, I want a culture that is self-accountable and high performance. And so I then
work backwards from that. We’ve worked backwards literally over the last four
years on figuring out what are the pieces and components that help us build out
that type of culture.
Jason Yormark: I love that. Yeah, no, culture is very important to me, even more
so because we’re virtual, you know, we’re not in the same space, so even more
challenges inherently with that. So you really have to make that a priority to build
even more so I would argue in that particular case, cause you don’t get the
opportunity to kind of get that face to face. So I love that. I love that. I love
everything you’ve shared. This is why I love doing this because it’s somewhat
therapeutic and it’s just, it always feels good to be able to have these conversations
with folks that just understand what I’ve gone through. And that’s great. I love
what you guys are doing and I really appreciate you carving out some time to kind
of share your story and really look forward to just kind of stand and touch and
watching you guys do your thing. So thanks for being on the show today.
Wayne Mullins: Thank you so much, Jason. Likewise enjoyed our conversation
and always enjoy learning and listening to other people, you know, kind of in the
same field doing the same thing that we’re doing. So thank you for the invite.
Jason Yormark: Sure. One last thing. Where can people find and learn more
about you and or your agency?
Wayne Mullins: Sure. Just www.Uglymugmarketing.com, email address,
telephone number is there, social links are there. So it’s all in that one spot.
Jason Yormark: Awesome. Well, that’s easy enough to remember. Thanks again.
That is it for this week’s episode of socialistic. Thanks for listening. Like share,
subscribe, all that good stuff. We will catch you next time.
Jason Yormark: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the socialistic social
media agency stories podcast. I’ve got another great guest this week. Someone that
I’m sure I have quite a few things in common with. So I’ll be interested to kind of
hear how they do what they do. So I want to welcome Wayne Mullins from ugly
mug marketing. Welcome to the show.
Wayne Mullins: Thank you so much, Jason. I’m excited for our conversation and
I’m really looking forward to it.
Jason Yormark: Awesome. Well, let’s just jump right in. Tell me your agency
story. Where did you start? How did it come to be? And you know, who are you
guys and what do you do?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, absolutely. So this journey actually started back when I
had a lawn and landscape company. So while back I had a lawn and landscape
company and over the course of about a three year period, we grew that company
very rapidly. And as a result of that growth, I started having some of our clients. So
clients of the lawn and landscape company come to me asking me, what are you
doing to grow? How are you marketing? How are you advertising? What are you
doing? And so I started just giving advice on the side, you know, here’s what we’re
doing, here’s what you should be doing or could be doing. And it was out of those
conversations that eventually ugly mug marketing would be born.
Jason Yormark: Got it. And how long ago did that happen? How long have you
been in business as that brand?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, so the lawn company would have been way back in the
day of 2003 through 2006. I sold that company in 2006 and at that point I actually
already had some people paying for marketing advice, marketing help. I didn’t
officially start ugly mug marketing though until 2009.
Jason Yormark: Okay. So you’ve been in business for a while. So tell me about
who you guys are, what you do, what’s your team like? Kind of give me the
lowdown.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, so we focus primarily on three core areas web, web
development, social media marketing, and then traditional marketing, everything
from television, radio, print, direct mail you name it. That’s the three core areas
that we stay focused in. You know, I don’t know, I know this is very cliche, but
you know, like a lot of agencies, we love to say that we focus on results and that’s
what matters most to us and to our clients.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. And tell me a little bit about how you built, was it just
you to start out? Did you have some folks with you? Tell me about your trajectory
and how you guys kind of got to where you are today?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, absolutely Jason. So, you know, when I first started, what
had originally grown my lawn and landscape company so rapidly was I was a
devout student of direct response marketing. I studied direct response marketing. I
read every single book I could get on it and I utilized direct response marketing,
and therefore highly believed in it. And so that’s what I was advising people to do.
That’s what I was people to do. Now, keep in mind the town that we’re located in,
the city has a population of 48,000 people. So we’re not talking big population.
We’re not talking big businesses, kind of rural town, rural community, so to speak.
And as I launched at ugly mug marketing, my belief and passion was that
businesses needed to be doing direct response. And so I attempted to go out and
convince business owners, entrepreneurs, that that is what they needed to be
doing. And it was a very long, difficult road. I was so set on this idea that it had to
be direct response, that I would ignore what they actually were asking me to do. So
they asked about designing something or they asked about helping with production
on something. My answer was always no, but here’s what we can do. We need to
be doing, you know, my things that I think are best for you based on my
experience. And it didn’t work well for me, to be honest with you, I spent more
time trying to convince them of the things they should be doing than I actually did
helping other people. And then one day as luck or chance would have it, I finally
said, you know, one of the things that kept coming up was can you help with a
website? Can you help with a website? And my answer was always, no, we don’t
do web. And finally out of desperation, I said, the next person who says, can you
do a website? Can you help with a website? My answer is going to be yes. And I
will figure it out and sure enough, it wasn’t long somebody asked. I want to say
that, that I quoted that person $400 for the website. I want to say that the
gentleman I paid to build that website charged $350. So as you can see, I wasn’t a
very astute businessman when it came to figuring this out.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. So tell me a little bit about your team, I looked at your
website, it looks like a pretty good size team. How did you build that? How did
you build your team and what does that look like today?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, the answer would be very slowly. But that was because of
my stupidity, as I just illustrated with the previous story. You know, my expertise
was around marketing specifically. And so when I started growing the team started
building out the team, you know, we’re a little over 12 years old now as a
company. You know, for the first, I would say eight years, we would have one or
two employees at a time that was the extent of it. Plus myself. And then four years
ago, we really began making the transition to building out a team. So it was less
about just specifically doing client work. It was more about being intentional,
about building a team that could get results and then finding the work for those
people. And so, you know, that’s the process we went through. The advice that I
got back then to pay steak and eat hot dogs, pay steak, and eat hot dogs. And that
advice doesn’t go over too well, especially when you’ve been struggling for years
to get your business off the ground, especially when you’ve been pouring your
heart, your soul, everything you’ve got into this business. And then you get the
advice of, you know, you actually need to pay yourself less or not increase your
pay and pay the people you recruit more. And so that mindset really was the shift
for me. It’s that team members are not an expense, team members are an asset that
they’re an investment into the future of the company.
Jason Yormark: I absolutely love that. I couldn’t agree more. I love that analogy
that you used. I think a lot of business owners, agency owners probably don’t
naturally think that way. I think it’s pretty rare. And I certainly do. So I fall into
that same method of thinking. A lot of it has to do with just, you know, I think a lot
of it comes down to, are you just that kind of person, you know, are you the kind of
person that can be comfortable with that and has a good heart or you’re generous,
or you just, you know, but at the same time, you know, recruiting and interviewing
and hiring and turnover, all of those things are tremendously time consuming and
expensive, and I would argue, and I’m sure you probably agree by paying people
more, but they’re worth maybe even more sometimes, there’s a higher propensity of
those people sticking around longer, and you’re not having to constantly replace
people and have a revolving door. So ultimately it ends up saving you money
because you’re not having to go through that sort of thing over and over again.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, absolutely. And generally speaking when you’re willing to
pay more, you’re able to attract a different caliber of people to that position. So
yeah, I completely agree with that.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. And have you, so in that regard, and I probably already
know the answer to this question, so have you had the luxury of having people on
your team that have kind of been you with you for an extended period of time and
if so, how has that benefited your agency?
Wayne Mullins: Absolutely. So I have you know, currently the longest running is
four years. I had somebody else prior to that that was four years. And you know,
those people are still here, so that clock is still ticking up. It’s still increasing you
know, the thing that’s uniquely challenging about where we’re located is that most
of the talent doesn’t stick here. So most of the talent in marketing, in advertising
doesn’t stay around here just because there aren’t that many jobs available. And so
they end up in bigger marketplaces. And so for us, recruiting is very, very difficult.
Hiring is very difficult. Part of that also has to do with our level of expectation.
You know, for us, this is not an exaggeration, but for every hundred applicants that
we get, we will probably talk to about 30 of those people of those 30, we will
probably actually interview less than 10 of those people and we may end up hiring
one of them. So it’s a lot of moving pieces to find the right people.
Jason Yormark: Well, that’s a lot of work. I should have asked these questions.
So are you, the work that you do, is it predominantly local to your region or is it
more national, a mix of both?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, great question. It’s a mix of both. I would say the mix
varies a little bit from season to season, time to time, but we are roughly, probably
65% in the state in Louisiana, 35% scattered across the country and occasionally
across the way.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. And do you guys have a physical office where your
team, do you work out of a physical location, or do you have a virtual element to
any of what you do?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, we do have a physical location. We have an actually quite
nice building that we’ve been in for about two years now, right in downtown of our
town that we’re located in. And most of us work here in the office. We do have one
person who recently moved and is working remotely at this point.
Jason Yormark: Gotcha. What has the with the pandemic, has that changed
anything for you guys in any capacity, whether logistically, operationally, fiscally,
I’m just kind of curious how it’s impacted you guys.
Wayne Mullins: So, you know, initially we were shut down for a period of time in
terms of not able to come together in the office. But you know, to be honest with
you, we came through it very strong. We came through it you know, very well as a
team. We worked really hard over those initial weeks to connect with every single
client, make sure they were doing okay, have conversations with them, not just
about business, but about life, you know, how are they coping with everything
taking place. So I really think that, you know, we created unintentionally, but there
was some intent behind it. We created a lot of Goodwill during that period of time.
One of the things that we did, we didn’t know what to do like so many you’re kind
of caught off guard and you don’t know what to do. We have a decent sized
following on Facebook, you know, 6,000, 7,000 followers in typically what we’d
done in the past is we used our platform. We use the Facebook platform, we would
go in there and do Facebook lives, do webinars, etc. During the pandemic, we
decided that we would reach out to our clients. We would reach out to people in
our community, business owners, we’d reach out to vendors. We’d reach out to
anybody that we thought could benefit from some exposure during that time. And
over the course of a six period, we actually interviewed 60 people live on
Facebook during that six week window as everything was shutting down. And the
intent behind that was simply this, that we have this platform that we typically use
in quote unquote self-serving ways. Sure, we broadcast, and we put out good
content for our followers, but we wanted to open that up to other people. So I know
you didn’t ask specifically about that, but that’s one of the ways that we actually
use that time to better serve our clients and better serve our community.
Jason Yormark: I love it. No, actually, we are more of a virtual agency. So we
don’t have that hometown feel, a lot of our maturation as a business actually
happened during the pandemic. So even if we had wanted to kind of move in that
direction, our hands are kind of tied because we didn’t really have that to begin
with. So I could definitely see how, you know that would change and give you
more. I mean, that’s one of the things that I often think about that, you know, I
envy is that, you know, being kind of that marketing agency that’s well-known and
has a really strong footprint in a specific area just because of the intimacy of what
that type of setup can provide. And certainly that aligns nicely to social media. So I
just certainly know the benefits, but you know, what is your, I mean, what is your
kind of like 5, 10 year plan? I mean, are you one of those agencies that’s like, we’re
kind of happy with what we are and what we represent, or do you kind of have
aspirations to take it a step further, which I would imagine would require doing
more work outside of your area? I’m just kind of curious about what your future
plans are as an agency owner.
Wayne Mullins: The reality is Jason, I don’t have an easy answer or simple answer
to that. I probably should, but what I would say is this, that, you know, my goal for
the company is simply this, that every single day, we’re getting a little bit better.
And I know that’s like the most cliche thing that someone could possibly say. But I
view it as this. So when someone comes and they become a part of our team, my
goal for that person, regardless of position, regardless of how long they’re going to
stay, my goal for that person is when they leave here, they are a better person, both
personally and professionally than when they got here. And so that is the mentality
though, that like flows through to the clients. It flows through to every aspect of
what we do. You know what I think so uniquely challenging about what we do in
the agency world is this, that what is exceeding expectations today, tomorrow will
become under exceeding expectations, right? So when you exceed expectations
day after day, that becomes the new expected norm. And so then you have to push
again. So you have to get a little bit better, or if not the latest, the greatest thing, the
next thing that comes along that promises something extraordinary in the way of
results, everyone’s going to flock to that company, to that thing, that app, whatever
that quote unquote magic thing may be.
Jason Yormark: Yeah. And you know, that’s a challenging environment to work
in some curious, when you’re looking for folks to join your team. What are your
non-negotiables like when you’re looking for folks, like what are the two or three
things that the person, the people that you want to bring into your family, your
work family, that they absolutely must check that box? Like, what are those things
for you?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. The very first one would be core values alignment. So the
skills can be taught. Skills can be taught day in and out. So we could take
somebody that knows nothing about social media. We can teach them those skills.
We can teach them ads manager, we can teach them whatever the things may be.
You cannot teach core values. You specifically cannot teach core value alignment.
Meaning if their personal values don’t align with what we stand for, there is
virtually no chance that overtime we’re going to convince them to align their values
with ours. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it’s probably not worth the time
investment to make that happen. So number one would be alignment with core
values. The second thing would be this idea, which it ties back into one of our core
values, but of being a lifelong learner. We want people who are passionate about
learning something new, so it doesn’t have to be about marketing. It doesn’t have to
be about business necessarily, but it does have to be about learning. They got to
have that mindset of, I don’t know as much as I should know about this area, I’m
going to keep learning. I’m going to keep pushing, I’m going to keep growing. So
those will be two things.
Jason Yormark: Excellent. So I want to talk a little bit about how you guys, how
you inbound leads, outbound leads. Like what is your process or what’s been your
areas of success for attracting and gaining new clients?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, you know, for the longest I felt guilty about this, Jason
because we were terrible marketers. All of our business came from word of mouth,
actually a hundred percent. And to this day, you know, 95 plus percent of our
business is word of mouth. We’ve gotten better though at leveraging how to get
word of mouth. We’ve gotten better at being intentional in attracting word of
mouth. So an example of what I mean by that would just simply be this. So, you
know, when launch a new website for somebody, for example, we will make a post
on social media that says, congratulations to X, Y, and Z. We will then spend
money promoting it to people who like that page, who are interested in that page if
we’re able to target. So, in other words, if that audience is big enough and we can
target that group, we’re going to target that group. And the reason is this, because
then everyone in that circle sees, oh, you know, this place I like just got a new
website. Oh, that’s interesting. This company did it. And so what that does is, it’s a
psychological trigger. It’s that social proof that, huh? If they use them, they’re
probably a decent company. So, you know, when the website conversation comes
up, I’m going to at least give them consideration, at least reach out and try to
connect with them.
Jason Yormark: I love that. That’s a great tip. What percentage of your, you had
mentioned, you said web, social and some traditional marketing, what’s the
percentage breakdown in terms of the work that you do. Do you have a sense of
that?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, so in the past, it’s roughly been a third, a third, a third and
that’s [18:55 inaudible] over the years. We’re currently at roughly 40% on
traditional marketing and then the other two departments are roughly splitting the
remaining. So that’s where we currently are. So 30, 30, 40 is that math right. Don’t
challenge me on my math here because math is not my thing.
Jason Yormark: I’m not going to do that. So do you find it easier to kind of get an
entry point with clients with a tangible thing? Like when you talk about a website,
it’s like this physical thing, it’s like, we need this thing, you build this thing, we can
see it, we can hear it, like it’s tangible. And then that opens up the door to maybe
some of the things that they can’t touch, taste, or feel like, you know, social media.
I mean, yeah, you can see the content, but like it’s often a big mystery for a lot of
clients that we come across in terms of how that can actually work and drive real
results for their business. So a lot of times you know, it’s more of a struggle for us
because there isn’t that tangible thing that a client may know that they just, we
physically need this thing. And then that kind of opens up that opportunity to do
other things when you have projects like that. Are you finding that your entry
points with clients typically lead that way or is it just kind of a mix?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah, no, what you’re saying is absolutely true. So our number
one salesperson for a new website for us is the competitor of the person who called
us. So let’s just use a dentist office. So a dentist’s office calls us and says, Hey,
we’re interested in getting a quote on a new website, 9 times out of 10. We come to
find, later we find out that one of their competitors just got a new website. And so
they’re like, oh, that website looks great. Ours looks terrible. We need this new
quote, unquote, like you said, thing. One of the ways that we combat that, because
that is a thing. So with social, you know, a very common thing as well, my
nephew’s boyfriend can take care of this. He’s got a hundred thousand followers on
Instagram. He’s, you know, all these things. And so one of the things that we do to
combat that as well, again, we use social proof and so we will highlight clients. In
other words, we’re excited to be celebrating our third anniversary of working with
client X, Y, or Z on, specifically on their social media. So we’ll talk about in that
post, what are we doing. So we will specifically call out social media. We will
specifically mention a few of the things that we’re doing or have done for that
client over that time period. And again, what we’re looking to create with that is
recreating some tangible evidence of this other otherwise kind of mysterious, like
digital thing that really any kid with a smartphone could do so to speak. And when
we do that, what that does is it enables that person, even though they may not
know that other client to sell on our behalf, because they think in the back of their
head, they think, well, if they’re going to spend whatever the amount is, X dollars a
month paying this company for the last two years to do it, there’s got to be a logical
reason, right? It’s not just some random person who decided to waste a bunch of
money with a local agency on their social media. There has to be a logical ROI
behind that. The only other thing I’d say that we always attempt to do is we always
attempt to identify the low hanging fruit first with any client and, so this would be
on social or on traditional marketing. And we attempt to replace our fee, whatever
we charge with new revenue as quickly as possible. So we will be pretty adamant
in some instances on what are the first things we need to do. Because the sooner,
we know that the sooner we can cover our own fee with new revenue, we’ve got a
client for life. We’ve got a client for life. And so always look for the low hanging
fruit first. In other words, what are the things that could be done that would drive
revenue that you can show that traction to, right? You can take what you’ve done
and say, here’s what we’re doing. Here’s the new revenue generated. Here’s how
we’re able to connect those two pieces. When you can do that, you will have clients
for quote unquote life.
Jason Yormark: I love that. One of my favorite questions I love to ask agency
owners because I think it provides some really great insight for those that are just
starting out or thinking about starting out is, you know, if you went back and could
do something differently around your building your agency, you know, missteps
that you made or things that you took you awhile to kind of figure out, what’s one
or two things that kind of come to mind that you would’ve done differently, or if
you were recommending to somebody who’s looking to kind of get this that they
really need to be thinking about.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. Great question. I’m going to give you two answers. One’s
going to be more tactile, more specific. The other, one’s going to be kind of a, not
so much that, and I’ll start with the first one, which is, I wish I hadn’t believed the
stories that I told myself for so long. So let me give you a specific example of that.
So for the longest time I carry this story around with me that I wasn’t a great leader
or a great manager. And for that matter that I wasn’t even a good manager or a
good leader. I carried that story with me for so long that it continually played out in
my business. Now that’s just one example. There was a lot of examples of stories
that I carried over from my previous experiences into this agency that I believe to
be true, which weren’t actually true. When I shifted those stories, the business
began to shift. So that’s kind of the more mystical or more woo woo answer. The
more tactile one is this. I wish that I had increased prices sooner. I wish I had
increased prices sooner. So, you know, we always go into things and we go in a
little bit timid, right? We go in walling, we were coming from a position of need
instead of a position of abundance. And so when we come from that perspective,
we come in at a price that devalues our services. It devalues even our entire
industry, right? You choose one of those buckets, marketing, social, or web. It
devalues those because we pride ourselves so low that we’re now frustrated by the
fact that we got the project, because we’re charging so little, we’re frustrated.
Therefore we don’t give them everything that we know they need or deserve. They
get frustrated because they’re not seeing the results that they hope for. And so it’s
this horrible cycle that we get into, all because we weren’t confident enough in our
skills and our ability to price ourselves at the level they need to be priced at.
Jason Yormark: That is a phenomenal piece of advice and incredibly timely. I
was actually, I’m part of a mastermind group in where we were talking about price
and how, So, I mean, I went through that exercise of feeling uncomfortable raising
prices. And like you had said, like operating out of need and not really charging
what you’re worth. And, you know, we’ve gotten past that for the most part. But I
constantly see, it’s almost like every agency owner goes through that. There’s not a
single agency owner that doesn’t experience that struggle. And it really isn’t
anything more than just training yourself to get comfortable with it. It’s a mindset,
you know, it’s really just getting past this idea that you’re going to lose an
opportunity because you’re charging too much. But the fact of the matter is if that’s
the case, they’re not the right fit for you. And to your point, which I love is that.
And I talk about this all the time, the power of saying, no, you have to be
comfortable saying no, sometimes a particular client isn’t the right fit for you
fiscally. And you know, maybe sometimes, sometimes the bigger clients can pay
for some of the smaller ones and you take those on, you know, but generally
speaking, you know, everybody’s not going to be a fit and you don’t want to get
into a situation where you’re charging less than what you’re worth. It frustrates you,
it frustrates your team. It impacts results. It’s a recipe for disaster. So I love that.
And I could not agree with that more. It’s definitely something that most agency
owners experience in some capacity.
Wayne Mullins: That was true for me. I would say, you know, two ways to
combat that would be one, just whatever you’re currently quoting, you know,
whatever the service is at. Just make a commitment to yourself that you’re going to
increase it by 10% with every single new project you get until you start hearing
more no’s, right. Just keep increasing it at 10%. The other advice that I got way
back in the day was you know, what would you normally quote for the project? So
the price, you know, the quote would normally be $2,000. Okay. At what price
would make you very uncomfortable to give them. So maybe that’s $3,000. Okay,
so $3000 is my kind of threshold. My internal threshold of what’s kind of way too
expensive possibly for this client to pay. And so I was actually challenged at the
time by a coach to go to that threshold and quote those prices to people. And I can’t
tell you the amount of resistance and the amount of pushback that I gave in this
process, but I wish I had listened to that much sooner.
Jason Yormark: So you just got to do it. You just put it out there and you’ll be
shocked at how it turns out. I mean, I think a much more favorably than most
people ever think. So that’s great stuff. So a couple one last question I’d like to ask
is what is, a favorite piece of technology, a book, a show, a resource, an article
what’s something that’s really stood out to you recently that has really made an
impact for you in some capacity across any of those sorts of things.
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. So I’m an avid reader, I read a lot. And so the question of
what one book is always a challenge because it’s like the book I’m currently
reading is the best book I’ve ever read usually. And so it’s like, that’s a tough one
for me. I just read a book called straight line leadership, which really was a
powerful book for me. It just talks about how we often over-complicate so much
and we work ourselves in circles or we zigzag our way to success when the reality
is, we can draw much more of a straight line than we believe as possible if we just,
those points along the way that we need to hit. So that’s a book I’d recommend.
Another would be, you know, one of the things that I’ve been very intentional
about this year is I’ve switched back to a physical planner for my calendar. I still
use Google calendar, but I didn’t take it and I put it in my physical or I will start
sometimes with the physical and then take it over to Google. It’s made a huge
difference in my productivity. For one, it’s not nearly as distracting as getting in
Google. Two, it’s just enables me, I use one that’s called the calendar itself is
called planner pad. And it enables me to see the entire week at one time with all of
my action items, all my to do’s in one spot. So for me as somebody who’s more of a
big picture person by seeing every single day laid out like that, I’m able to then like
segment those things off in my head and not worry about what am I forgetting?
What am I missing?
Jason Yormark: Nope. I love that. As much as a digital technology guy. I still
like the old school notebooks or things for note taking and things of that nature. So
I totally get that. So, well that’s awesome. Anything that I didn’t ask you or
anything that you’d want to add, that you didn’t get the opportunity to kind of share
that relates to kind of what we talked about?
Wayne Mullins: Yeah. The only other thing I would kind of add is that, you
know, when it comes to building an agency, when it comes to building a team for
the longest for me personally, that I thought culture was just this thing that was just
like, you know, latest buzzword. And that culture was this thing that, you know,
Silicon Valley companies took care of. And, you know, it was all about the
napping pods and the stock kitchens and all this crazy stuff. But what I finally
realized was that if we are unintentional about our culture, then we are
intentionally creating a bad culture. So for unintentional about the culture, we are
intentional about creating a bad culture and when I embrace that, when I begin
putting in effort and really thinking through what culture are, we creating, things
begin to shift. So that is when, what I would call the term I would use is that is
when we began building out a self-accountable, high performance team, that
mentality shift for me was huge. It was profound. And so I would challenge
anyone listing to be intentional about your culture. And if you want to know what
your culture currently is for your agency, your culture litmus test is this, how do
people perform when the boss is away? So if you’re the agency founder, and you’re
listening to this, when you’re going on vacation and not checking in all the time,
what’s the performance look like of your team. That is what your true culture is.
That is the definition, that’s the litmus test for your company culture. And so for
me, I want a culture that is self-accountable and high performance. And so I then
work backwards from that. We’ve worked backwards literally over the last four
years on figuring out what are the pieces and components that help us build out
that type of culture.
Jason Yormark: I love that. Yeah, no, culture is very important to me, even more
so because we’re virtual, you know, we’re not in the same space, so even more
challenges inherently with that. So you really have to make that a priority to build
even more so I would argue in that particular case, cause you don’t get the
opportunity to kind of get that face to face. So I love that. I love that. I love
everything you’ve shared. This is why I love doing this because it’s somewhat
therapeutic and it’s just, it always feels good to be able to have these conversations
with folks that just understand what I’ve gone through. And that’s great. I love
what you guys are doing and I really appreciate you carving out some time to kind
of share your story and really look forward to just kind of stand and touch and
watching you guys do your thing. So thanks for being on the show today.
Wayne Mullins: Thank you so much, Jason. Likewise enjoyed our conversation
and always enjoy learning and listening to other people, you know, kind of in the
same field doing the same thing that we’re doing. So thank you for the invite.
Jason Yormark: Sure. One last thing. Where can people find and learn more
about you and or your agency?
Wayne Mullins: Sure. Just www.Uglymugmarketing.com, email address,
telephone number is there, social links are there. So it’s all in that one spot.
Jason Yormark: Awesome. Well, that’s easy enough to remember. Thanks again.
That is it for this week’s episode of socialistic. Thanks for listening. Like share,
subscribe, all that good stuff. We will catch you next time.
