This week I sat down with Brian Bogert, an incredibly well spoken performance coach, motivational speaker and business strategist focusing on helping entrepreneurs reach their full potential. It’s a fascinating conversation that any aspiring or current business owner should listen into to learn more about how to get out of your own way to reach untapped levels of success.

You can learn more about Brian at, and be sure to take him up on his free offer at



Jason Yormark: Welcome to another episode of anti-agencies, stories of doing business differently. Really excited about our guests this week. We’re kind of bringing a little bit different flavor to what we typically do. So, this week we’ve got Brian Bogert from Brian Bogart companies. Brian, welcome to this show. Tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and we’ll go from there.

Brian Bogart: Happy to be here, Jason. Well, I’m a husband and father first. I always start their cause it’s my most important role and the only thing binary in my world because if my wife and kids aren’t good, nothing else matters. I’m a serial entrepreneur. I’m a human behavior coach and really, I’m just a geek for people, brother. I’ve had a really long tumultuous journey. I’m a practitioner of pain mentally, physically, spiritually, and emotionally. Pretty unique story we may get into or not. But really what has, where it’s led me to is we’re on a mission to impact a billion lives as quickly as possible, by reducing the level of suffering that exists on this planet. You know, there’s a lot of suffering and that means many different things. But I believe a lot of suffering that exists is in the internal side of suffering.

And so many areas on the internal game of suffering come in four areas, things that are left unsaid, things we lack permission to feel or say the things we lack the words to articulate are the things that are left undone. And so, so often my purpose in life is to allow my truth to let others live there, to give others permission to live theirs. So, our words are pathways are structures are a way that we help people lean in to seeing who they are, who they’re doing this for, who they’re doing this with and who they plan to impact because that’s the ripple effect that’s going to create that impact at such a level.

Jason Yormark: That’s awesome. I love when people have cause based direction in what they do as a business, we certainly try to do that with a lot of what we do around our socialistics cares program. But so, tell me a little bit more about like who do you work with? Like what does your world look like? The types of people that you work with, where they come from, how they find you just a little bit more context around that.

Brian Bogart: Yeah. So, I’ll talk about this specifically with our speaking and coaching business. Our other entities that still perpetuate elements of that who through the world are going to look a little bit different, but largely and even in our speaking and coaching business, there’s different segments, right? So, there’s one to one coaching that I do. Then we have group coaching, we’ve got different courses and communities and different elements that kind of attach to different elements of individuals as well. I typically am working with high level entrepreneurs or executive leadership of large corporations. My background, I spent 15 years in risk management, [02:24 inaudible] consulting. We scaled a business from nothing to over 15 million with the span of the last decade. I was in that industry. I executed my buy-sell and left, but I’ve been working with multinational multi-billion-dollar companies for the last 15 to 20 years.

And so now in the coaching space, what we’re really doing is helping these individuals recognize that everything begins and ends with them. If they’re having cultural issues, if they’re having connection issues with their associates, with their clients, with people in the community, if they aren’t able to perpetuate the cultural change that they want, they can’t manifest the growth or the create the systems or processes within their businesses to do so. Very often we are able to help turn the mirror on them, to see themselves more clearly recognize the things that are actually keeping them stuck. Most people believe it’s strategy and tactics, right? If I just get the next seven step system for success. Yeah. If I just go learn better sales systems and training, if I go do this, if I make this amount of money, then all of a sudden, I’m going to be okay.

But the reality of it is those aren’t the things that keep people stuck. Those are the things that keep people in the ability to leverage and scale their lives. So, what really keeps people stuck off and is a combination of their emotional triggers, behavioral patterns and environmental conditioning. And what we do is we really help these individuals go through the process of understanding those blockers that are maybe blind spots, actually very often blind spots. They’re the subconscious coming forward That’s impacting the same patterns in their lives feeling as if they have no influence or control of their destiny.

So, we work with these individuals to really elevate their own level of awareness and intentionality in everything they do, and to continue to build their life of intentional alignment so it can become self-regulating. And then when they focus on who they are, instead of chasing all the what’s of the world, what house, what car, what amount of money, what amount of success do I need in this business? We realign them with who and all the what’s in the world become a manifestation of who they are, which is significantly more powerful.

Jason Yormark: Yeah. Well, that’s amazing stuff. And I’m sure it’s something that most people don’t think about initially when they’re thinking about starting a business or running a business. So, I want to kind of make it real for the audience by using kind of a real-world example. Cause I know that agency owners or people that are thinking about either starting a business, oftentimes are, they’re afraid, they’re scared of taking that leap. They’re afraid of the idea of not having a steady paycheck or, you know, how do I ensure that my family’s taken care of and medical benefits. So just the sheer magnitude of kind of going off and doing your own thing and the uncertainty that comes with that can be a very fearful thing. And sometimes that fear can be very prohibitive to taking that leap. I know it was for me, I’ve tried it in the past and I know this now looking back that that fear probably was prohibitive to me and being able to be as successful as I wanted to be.

And it wasn’t until I had just reached a threshold of like normal jobs and nine to five, just aren’t doing it for me anymore. And it took a long time to finally just get to a point where I’m like this just, I’m not wired this way, and this isn’t working. And that stability that I was always looking for was right in front of me the whole time, which was covering my own path. And when that clicked in my head and I no longer was afraid of that path, everything took off for me, that’s when the business became successful. And I can’t really put my finger on it exactly as to the why. Maybe it was just good timing, a coincidence, but I truly believe that my ability to control that fear and not let it control me is a big part of why I was able to build what I did. So, I’m just curious about your experiences with similar sorts of things, about how people deal with fear and how that psychologically impacts people. I’m really curious on your insights around that. Cause I think the audience would really appreciate that.

Brian Bogart: Yeah. So, we’ll speak about fear, but recognize that so many of these elements also overlap, whether it’s dealing with shame, whether it’s dealing with anger, whether it’s dealing with guilt scarcity, perfectionism control, often which are byproducts of shame as well. Yeah. You know, so just recognize when I say emotional triggers, fear is obviously one of those byproducts. Cause when we’re afraid we have a tendency to want to protect ourselves, right? So, we enter into the situation very typically armored or guarded in a way that we can’t be our most authentic selves and allow that to permeate through whatever we’re doing. So, let’s understand the concept of fear, Dr. Susan Jeffers, I think outlines it best in her book, feel the fear and do it anyway. She says, there’s really three layers of fear. There’s those internal fears, those thoughts, those impressions, those limitations, those things that have happened, you know, in our own psyche that have limited where we are, there’s those external fears, those things that happened to us like global pandemics, financial loss, like putting yourself into a position where you’re constantly miserable, going into the office and dying slowly every single day.

And then there’s the level three fears, which she says are the root of all fears. And it’s the answer to the question. Can I handle it? Cause the reality of it is if you knew that you could handle anything that came of your way, you knew that no matter what you would be okay, what is there really to feel or to fear? And so, her concept is, and this is often what we do in the work that we do is really to help people get clarity on what is it that you’re actually afraid of? You know, I worked with a business owner who was very successful in understanding how to identify problems within her client’s world, outline and articulate solutions that would solve their problems, create and build relationships that would create sustainability and connection for her business. But she didn’t have a great ability to generate a pipeline. And so, every time she would look forward and she’d see that telephone in front of her, it looked like it weighed 500 pounds.

So, we started to unpack that we started to really understand what that was connected to. Well, at the end of the day, she had always been put into a position and a belief and a narrative in her life that she would never actually have the ability to be successful. She also didn’t go to the level of understanding what success actually looked like for her and how she defined it. She also didn’t actually recognize that to be able to build and scale her business, that she needed to have systems and processes in place so that she could execute on these things at volume and scale.

So, when we actually started to pair back the layers of the onion, what we started to realize is that it was not so much of 500-pound telephone, just the hesitancy of that call because she knew how to have conversations with prospective clients. She knew how to outline these things and build relationships, all the stuff I told you she was great at. All the difference was that this was to generate new opportunities in the medium, on the phone. What we unpacked is that what she was actually dealing with is fear of success. What would it look like if she was actually good at what she did? Would she be able to handle the flow in her business? Would she be able to execute on the promises that she made? Would she be able to actually fulfill the growth that she felt like she could? And could she deliver in all these areas all the while, while managing this narrative that was beat into her entire life, which is that she’d never be successful.

She was literally afraid of success because she was afraid of how she was told success is defined. But when she ingrained for herself, she felt these things and she recognized what to do with it. She was able to move. I’m a big believer That fear gives us feedback and it hones our focus if we’re paying attention. But fear is awesome also fabricated. We are literally creating a fabricated future that we’re afraid to live into when in most cases, those moments of discomfort to move through that Brene Brown outlines last up to eight seconds at most. So, from the second of hesitation to the second of action, if you can move through those eight seconds of discomfort, all of a sudden you put yourself into a position to realize what I’ve told my kids since the time they were born, that all the greatest things in life are on the other side of fear, fun, freedom, and fulfillment.

So, if you recognize the elements that are contributing to the fear, the underlying pieces that are actually making you experience this feeling, then it’s no different than shame, worth guilt, perfectionism, or control. All of these things create an armor of protection around us that actually prevent us from getting what we actually want. In your case, you felt it, you identified it, you recognize the path that went forward because it honed your focus, and it gave you feedback.

You charted the path. You anticipated places that you could fall. You ultimately just like you would in a mountain biking situation, climbed the hill, got to the top and recognize I have to go down. I’m on the path now. So how do I do it in a successful way? Well, at some point after you’ve planned, you’ve anticipated areas of failure. You’ve looked at the feedback and honed your focus. You just gotta let go of the brakes and let it roll. Have a little bit of faith.

Jason Yormark: Yeah. It’s interesting. When I experienced that fear up front, at least on the surface level and I’m sure it goes much deeper than this. For me it was just the, now as we’re talking through this and you’re saying these things, I think I’m realizing a little bit more like, cause my initial answer to the question like, well, what was I afraid of? Am I afraid of, I was afraid of like, not being able to pay the bills. But ultimately what I think it really was, at least initially was I was afraid of not being able to take care of my wife or my kids or like to be able to take care of them.

What’s interesting is I’m not worried about that now. Cause we’ve reached a level of success that that’s not really kind of like a problem, what I’m afraid of now that is taking care of my team, making sure that, you know, they’re taken care of and that I’m never going to be in a position where I have to let somebody go because of financial reasons, like if they’re rockstar employees or they’re a big part, like  that scares the shit out of me about the thought of like, cause you know, agency is, you know, we’re and trying times right now with the economy, like I’m always afraid of like not being able to take care of them. So ultimately what my fear is, is not being able to take care of the people that I care about in my life. And that’s the fear that I, you know, and I struggle with that a little bit still, but not to the point where it prohibits me. But I feel that. A lot of times in the middle of the night when I can’t sleep.

Brian Bogart: I am going to Challenge you a little bit, Cause if you feel it, it’s real. I’m going to challenge you a little bit. Cause if you feel it, it’s real. And so, what I would guess is, although when you say it doesn’t necessarily impact me, the reality of it is, is when you at least can acknowledge from a position of awareness, that there is an emotion that exists, that’s creating a resistance and energy drain in your experience of how you enter into the world. It is having effect. Now does it have a direct effect that creates damage real time or right now? Maybe not. But what I will say is that very, very often when people are operating from a position there, right, that often is fear, that’s operating in a position of scarcity. It’s tied to a deeper level of emotion. And I guarantee that there’s emotional triggers and behavioral patterns that if you could see them clearly understand where they came from and how to move through them by actually effectively, unroot where they are in your life. Ten all of a sudden you get to move faster with less effort, and you can neutralize and diffuse that resistance and energy drain.

Even if it’s not creating damage right now, the fact that there’s an existence of resistance based on an, on an emotion that we would typically qualify as negative. That’s the only thing I’m going to challenge you further on Jason is. I love how you re-articulated that I love that it brought you to a different level of awareness. Yeah. I’m just going to push you a little bit deeper even beyond where you are right now.

Jason Yormark: Yeah. It’s interesting. Cause I tie it back, I think it probably comes from like I grew up with a single parent mom who struggled, worked her tail off to take care of my brother and I, so I’m sure it comes from a place of growing up poor and like wanting to take care of others. And you’re right. It does manifest itself. And I think one of the things that I realized a little bit like a year or two ago is that that fear of not being able to take care of people meant probably it kind of manifested itself in that I was afraid to take risks. I was afraid to, like I wanted to collect all this money and keep it in case we get into a trying time I could afford to keep people, even if we had to fight through a couple months, but I was doing it to too much of a level because it’s like, I wasn’t taking risks. I wasn’t reinvesting in the business in a way to help it grow as much as it could. And that’s where I think, you know, that’s where I struggle a little bit.

And then once I was able to recognize that, take a little bit of risks, we were able to take bigger leaps as a company. So that’s definitely a way that I see.

Brian Bogart: Beautifully articulated, but I mean, that’s the difference between playing not to lose and playing to win, right? And if you think about it just in even what we do from a natural human experience perspective, every single one of us, right. We all want to feel safe. We all want to feel protected. We all want to feel seen and understood and we all want to feel connected. The reality of it is, is most situations that we walk into, we don’t feel protected, which means we don’t feel safe. So, what do we do? We protect ourselves. We put that armor up and all of a sudden what we’ve done is then we have this impenetrable force field that actually wraps up around us that it makes it impossible for us to demonstrate authentically who we are to anybody on the outside of that force field, nor have them actually see and receive who we are effectively through them.

It also creates this element of the longer we carry that. Right? How long could you hold two, five-pound dumbbells out in front of you?

Jason Yormark: I don’t know, maybe 5 to 10 minutes, I don’t know.

Brian Bogart: 5 to 10 minutes, but what’s going to happen is the longer you hold them there, the heavier it’s going to get, the more it’s going to burn, and our emotions are no different. Our armor is no different. Yeah. We think that those armors protecting us, but the longer we carry it, the actually the more it actually prevents us from getting the things that we actually want, which is to be seen connected as well as really make sure that we are moving through things.

But there’s all these other ramifications. So, when you think about fear and this energy that’s created through everything, you just outlined, think about how that comes into your business. If you are afraid operating from a position of scarcity, that you’re not going to be able to provide the financial resources to not only leverage and scale your business, but to provide for your team in such a way. Then what you’re doing truly is you’re putting an armor up, that’s going to block the energetic attraction of money into your world because you’re trying to protect versus be open to receive.

It’s a materially different approach, but you, as a leader can put yourself into a position in your business, in your life, in your relationships to come in as the protector and the connector, which means that you’re going to come in and create an environment that you wrap everybody in it in a realm of protection so that everyone can feel safe. Meaning everyone in there can drop their armor. When that happens and you can operate connected as a team, everybody can be safe, everybody can be seen and understood, and everybody can be connected. Then all of a sudden you can create an engine to be able to manifest and growth and attract the money and the resources and the people to need that into your life.

But often because we’re so protected, so guarded and carrying so much armor, we don’t ever allow ourselves to receive even what sometimes is right in front of us.

Jason Yormark: Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot, I mean, there’s so much that can be unpacked here for people. I think one of the questions that comes to my mind on behalf of the folks that are probably listening is, you know, I think a lot of people recognize that they could be doing things better or that they have emotions or feelings around things that might be, you know, something that they need to work on. How would you advise somebody that’s maybe listening to this and is thinking, yeah, I could probably use some guidance or help? Like what are the things that somebody should be thinking about in terms of how they can deal with these things? Cause I think, you know, a lot of people just want to deal with like, I’ve got shit to do. I’ve got, I know and they just kind of get busy, they get busy and kind of taking care of yourself and taking time to kind of deal with emotions and feelings and those sorts of things often get a backseat to everything else.

How would you recommend somebody that understands that that’s a thing but isn’t prioritizing it to kind of start to go down that path to, to do better around that, to help them with not only their personal life, but their business and their professional life.

Brian Bogart: Yeah. So pretty much everything for me always starts with a level of awareness. You know, our minds process, 11 million bits of information per second, but we’re only consciously about 40.  Which is also why it’s so easy for most people to sit here and act like life is fate. Like they’re victims. Like they have no influence or control of their destinies. And so, what you are unaware of you can’t be intentional with. And so, until you go through a systematic process of moving the unconscious to conscious, the unaware to the aware, it’s going to feel like you’re victim and it’s going to feel like life is fake.

But what’s interesting about what you said is if people know that like these are things that they need to focus on or that they maybe aren’t in the right place, that means that they have enough of a level of understanding and awareness. It just means they don’t know what to do with it or where to move with it. And so, awareness is always going to be, the first place to start is to actually start to pay attention to how you are feeling. Guess what, if you go into your job every single day and you feel isolated, unworthy and not aligned and you have this negative, toxic energy, every single time you enter and every single time you leave, that’s probably not an environment that’s serving you or there’s emotional triggers and damage that needs to be felt long enough that you can actually start to move through it.

Cause I’m a big believer that if we don’t feel we don’t heal, I know this from personal experience, I’ll just layer in my story real fast. When I was seven, I was run over by a truck and my left arm was completely separated from my body. Reattached 24 surgeries, years of recovery. And when I shut off physical pain, because the demands of my environment exceeded my ability to cope. I also shut off emotional pain for 25 years and I didn’t even realize it. Because that’s also what I was told. It was a way that I survived. It was my own armor. But guess what? The narratives of the world are reduced, eliminated, avoid pain at all costs. You can’t feel, you can’t show up with emotion, shut that off. Cut it off right at the top, show up with a smile on your face and move fast. That’s what the world tells us.

We don’t feel like we have permission to actually experience the elements of reality that go through our body, our minds and our souls, which are the feeling dynamic beings that we are. So, the first step is that you have to have level awareness. If you can recognize that you are not where you want to be, That’s the first indication that you need to look deeper.

Now I’m a big believer that many, many people can put themselves into a position to really start to move through these things. But a lot of folks just say very simplistic. So, I’m going to give a very low hanging fruit because the inside out method’s probably too complex for this dialogue today. But if you’re struggling to understand even basic elements on where to move, I just want you to create two lists on the first list, I want you to put all the people, places, sources of information, environments that you go through that leave you lit up. That you could spend eight hours there and it felt like one. That you feel alive. You feel in flow. You can’t wait to get back there tomorrow to have that conversation with that person to work on that project, to be in that space.

We all know what that feels like, right? Create the other list. People, places, sources of information and environments that make you feel defeated. Depleted, unworthy, absolutely drained from energy. One hour felt like eight of slamming your head into the wall. You can’t imagine having another conversation with that person. You cannot imagine having to go work on that project again. But here’s the reality. We all live and exist in this space. So often yet we do nothing about it. So, with clarity, create these two lists and start to systematically, identify where you can reduce eliminate or just overall neutralize anything on this list and move and spend more time on the positive side.

If that’s the only thing you do, you will be more connected and living energetically authentically with who you are. But if you want to go deeper, there’s definitely pathways to do this, but everything starts with awareness. And we have a whole framework that we help people really understand. Not only the pains they need to learn to embrace, to avoid the suffering in their life, but how to actually get unstuck and get moved through the things that they’ve not been able to in the past, as well as a whole understanding on helping people go deeper to really understand how do I connect at the deepest level with myself and allow that connection to permeate into every other connection in my life.

Jason Yormark: What has been some of the examples of the net result of folks that have worked with you through these sorts of things that they’ve gained from that? I think people are kind of might be curious about that.

Brian Bogart: You know, I could give you a hundred examples, but I also know that I can tell you want some business examples. So, I’m going to give you a really solid one. It’s a good buddy of mine too. He worked with me for a while. Beginning of COVID, he runs a commercial real estate investment development and property management firm. They are, I don’t remember the exact revenue amount at the time when this started, but at the beginning of COVID, they essentially communicated to their team that they have 17 months of liquidity. And despite the family business that they have, he wanted to hold on, as long as he possibly could and encouraged everybody to start looking for jobs, A declining industry or seeming, in the commercial space for a very long time. He was on the tail end of a $650,000 settlement.

The organization owed him over $250,000 that he withheld in his own earnings to be able to extend the timeline for his team. He’s also an individual that used to ride his bike from coast to coast in the United States. He’s done it more than once. And he used to be extremely physically fit. All of a sudden, he’s also in a position where he and his wife have lived in the same house for 14 years when they moved in, their kids were little and they had these plans and aspirations to not only remodel it, but to get into a bigger property. Now, their kids are 14 years older, mid adults, and they’re totally stuck in their space. To say an outline that his relationship was not in a great place. Their communication wasn’t in a great place in their business was declining, would be an understatement.

We started working with him within two months. We developed an understood with absolute clarity that he was dealing with an extreme, extreme case of shame that was tied primarily to self-worth and manifested through scarcity in his life and in his business. We went deep through the process to understand where the roots were actually started to effectively pull them out and brought him into a place of conscious awareness, real time in those moments. So, he could pause and move through them as those things developed in his life. Fast forward, 18 months, I’ve already received two calls from his wife, thanking me for an increase in the communication in their household. They actually upgraded their home for the very first time because when we were able to help him understand the depth of this, he actually could afford it. He could put himself into a position to do it. And so, they did.

He started riding 150 miles on his bike again, but here’s the most miraculous part. They literally grew their organization by a hundred percent over a six-month window, The last six months that we worked together. They capitalized on multiple eight, nine and 10 figure fundraising rounds. They’d never done a 9 or a 10-figure round. They closed two of them in 30 days or less. Their upward trajectory of their business. They added in new employee benefits. He got fully reimbursed from what he was owed. And in last year alone, he as the business owner netted over 600 grand himself on top of giving everybody merit raises, bonuses and extending new lines of coverage, all tied to the fact that he was the greatest blocker in his business because of how shame and scarcity were preventing them from moving as a team to bring the clients in that they needed to create the sustainability and the stability moving forward. That’s a great example. I have 10 others we could go through.

Jason Yormark: Yeah. That’s awesome stuff. I think it just, for those that are listening, it just, and it’s funny when I do these, I don’t think of a title or a theme or a topic at a time, I just kind of let the conversation go or it goes, and as we’re having the conversation, there’s a part of me that’s thinking, oh, it’s this, oh, it’s this. And I think what you just said, kind of crystallized it for me completely in terms of what this is about. To me like, and this is the marketer of me coming out like, oh, this is how you get in your own way most of the time, or when running a business or something like that. And it’s so true. And I think that everything you’ve kind of talked about here when we touched about fear and, but people struggle with so many times, people just want to make it easy and say, oh, it’s this tactic. Or it’s this strategy. Or I don’t have enough money. And when, oftentimes it’s you and what’s going on in your head and what you’re not dealing with. So, you kind of get in your own way sometimes.

Brian Bogart: The majority of the time, it’s you.

Jason Yormark: Yeah, no for sure. And I love that. This is all amazing stuff and you’re absolutely right. There’s so much more here that you can capture in a 20-to-30-minute episode, but I really love what we’ve discussed. I think it’s really enlightening. You’re incredibly well spoken. It’s clear you know what you’re talking about. So, before we kind of wrap things up, I definitely want to give the audience you know, where can they find you, what they should they be looking at if they want to be thinking about, you know, getting some help around these sorts of things.

Brian Bogart: Yeah. Awesome. If you’re a social media person go to @bogertbrian on any channel, you can find us, feel free to DM us If you have interest in connecting or learning more. If you’re on the web, go to And then dude, just given what you said, do you mind if I offer something free to the audience?

Jason Yormark: Absolutely. For sure.

Brian Bogart: Okay. I’m going to give a caveat before I do this, because this isn’t one of those like games where I’m just going to trap you into a funnel in perpetuity. At the end of the day, when I say that we want to do this, we want to impact a billion lives as quickly as possible. Yeah. And what I’ve learned in all this time is that move people, move people. So, the more people I can move, the faster we get to that billion impact. So, we developed a free version of our course that we actually run all of our clients, our communities and everything through it. The introduction all the way through the first chapter of our course. And you can get access to it for free.

Here’s the trick. I get your email in exchange for it. You’re going to get a handful of emails through completing the process and yes, you’re going to get four emails at the end of it. They’re going to outline opportunities to engage further, but here’s what I can guarantee you. If you commit the time to go through this, you will glean something, you will grow. And if all you needed was what was in containing that free course, all I ask is that you move it and share it with other people. I don’t want you to feel like you have to purchase something unless you get moved. But the reality of it is, is I know this will add value and bring clarity and connection and attention to who you are and where you’re going and who you’re becoming.

So, if you go to, you’ll be able to get access to that there. And like I said, you’ve got the full disclosure on everything you’ll expect through that process.

Jason Yormark: Awesome. I love it. Well, I’m going to do it. I promise you that, super interesting stuff and we’ll make sure that the show notes has those links for you that are listening. So, you have easy access to stuff. Brian awesome stuff. I’m really compelling. I’m serious, I want to try this out and test it out. So, I really love having guests where I learned some things and get access to resources. So, thank you for covering out the time today to share and really look forward to following the work that you do.

Brian Bogart: Well, thank you for building the platform that I can pour good into the world, brother. That was a great conversation. I look forward to talking and let me know if I can help you.

Jason Yormark: Awesome. Thanks again. And for those of you listening, thanks for listening. Like, share, subscribe, tell everybody you know. We’ll catch in next episode of anti-agency stories.